Quote from: Gizmotron on June 04, 2018, 12:50:47 PM
"I know you are but what am I." -- that's it? Yikes. Are you enjoying the implication of the other thread? They completely impeach decades of accepted thought in that discussion. Your edge argument just dried up and died on the vine. It's fun to see a good logical argument refute past dogma. You can no longer demagogue your saintly position. Your tower is crumbling. nanner nanner nanner 

I remember several downfalls and negative "such and such's" someone named Mark admitted and faced and it was on this board, no?  Which to me, for whatever it is worth to anyone else, awards huge credibility, credence and experience(s) of great value from the Yale or Harvard equivalent of the 'University of Hard Knocks & Value'.  Double period.

Quote from: AsymBacGuy on June 03, 2018, 08:39:09 PM


Casinos advantages:

- math edge
- infinite bankroll vs limite players' bankrolls
- betting limits
- no emotions involved as they know the final positive outcome

Possible players advantages:

- selecting at most the situations to bet
- adapting a proper MM knowing that losing sessions or losing weeks are inevitable as a strategic plan can only get the best of it in a very diluted fashion. The same is true for casinos which may stay losers for long.

We can't alter the casinos advantages, just working on our possible advantages.

as.

Asym,

Spot on in summation.  There are numerous other Psych/Emotional/Vision/Desires, 'cons' or 'pros' that prey and hamper or pat a positive player on the back and encourage them.  Problem is, and a huge one--is almost all players have no clue or idea what those are and when they do set in--the player is usually defensive and resistant to the max--thus, falling prey or just plain being greedy/stupid, or whatever to the casino that is neutral and has that unlimited bankroll and cash for what they need to do, etc.

Problem is, IMO and after decades of playing, experience, family members of management in casinos admissions, etc., etc., is that the players will attack just those things you talked about with probably (unofficial and IMO) upwards of 90% of the time---the very first thing you mentioned:  "math edge" and work something out on their computer, paper, test programs, etc., and then attack for years and years knowing inside of them---"This has to work and it will work" therefore, missing what actually will work.  Maybe not on paper and maybe not with an elaborate arithmetical and scientific detailed proof statements, analysis and theory---etc., etc., but certainly does work 100% of the approx. 70-80% of the time.  The problem is, and maybe it is a quagmire---when we find ourselves in that ugly 20-30% of the time/space/section--we lose all decent and productive thought/goals/knoweldge and the ability to use of our experience, etc.  100% of the 'XYZ' time?  No, not double talk--my way of explaining you find what does win--because there is certainly a whole lot of winning going on at the bac tables, just almost everyone gives it back and then drains themselves for countless reasons and excuses as I pretty much wrote about on the board.  The entire 'key trigger/trick' is that player hold/realization/consciousness/decision making process outside of your body/and total conscious manipulation of your buy-in and win money without regard to goals, desires and what is sitting in front of you and your eyes in the dealer's rack, etc., etc., etc.  Longer and much more elaborately involved as some of us realize and are aware of. 

I remain.  Thank you for your great experiences you attempt to explain or bring-out here.

Quote from: Gizmotron on June 03, 2018, 01:21:47 PM
Just think of it as a toxic mess that needs to be cleaned up. Anyone can see the level of civility is monitored and kept to a very high standard here at this forum, as juxtaposed by the conduct seen on other forums. There will always be trolls. There will always be the mathBoyz vs the educated guessers. All that really matters is that both parties are attempting to put a dent in the casino's bottom line. The, "I'm better than you" game is just part of our fun and games. I like to watch GreenGuy blast Ken with his nasty disparaging pejoratives on another forum. It's funny too. And best of all, Ken comes back and delivers his zingers too. It's just a different style of communication. This place can be like herding cats at times. The other place is free but rude to the max. The point "is to keep talking;" -- Pink Floyd

And that is exactly why I contacted him and brought him back and we started with a clean slate and we shook hands last night and had a long conversation and he is going to be one of our key players here and he's going to have his own blog space that we are creating now thank you appreciate the support mark!!

Quote from: Mike on June 03, 2018, 07:19:55 AM
If the game is fair then in the long run you will break even, but even offering a fair game the casino is still likely to win because they have an infinite bank in comparison with any individual player. Look up "Risk of Ruin" for the math.

That wouldn't prove anything, and it's easy with hindsight to say "I would have quit here" AFTER the session. The truth is in some sessions you will never get ahead.

Of course, you will win in the long run.

I agree with you that the house edge isn't the ONLY factor; poor discipline and money management certainly contribute much to the casino's coffers which they wouldn't get if gamblers didn't use silly progressions and continually "reinvest" their winnings until they lose everything, but self discipline and sensible money management should be givens; they are necessary but not sufficient for success. The overriding factor is getting an edge in the first place, only then should you focus on MM and discipline, they are certainly not substitutes for an edge. And variance is not the enemy as many gamblers seem to think. If you have no edge it's the only way you can win in the short term, and if you have an edge it's irrelevant.

Mike's responses are 100% dead on accurate, not fully explained but totally correct, IMO.

Quote from: TheMagician on June 03, 2018, 07:14:19 AM
A good decision  

Glen has always contributed and supported this forum with great amounts of creative thinking, exciting stories and much, much more for a very long time. Allowing him to take hold of the steering wheel will certainly keep this craft rolling on, with a good stability, on a road with a bright future and exciting views.

I do appreciate very much that positive statement you just made. Unfortunately on message boards negativity and derogatory statements have great and  more impact and drama oriented support by what is usually the minority because the majority doesn't want to get entangled with them. It's the same thing with restaurant reviews on such websites as Yelp and other numerous sites where the negativity stands out in much more detail and some other people jump on the bandwagon and normally if everything's okay or positive it doesn't get written about and only a few will  Rave about it and most people will think that's the owner by proxy or a friend of the owner or something along those lines. I know numerous people on this board alone do not want entangle with the handful that will try to drag everybody and everything down, just for the sparring effect and I guess you could just say--to stir the pot and have it bubble over. But like I said, I do appreciate what you just posted thank you. Very much!

Quote from: Xander on June 02, 2018, 06:18:26 PM
Mike,

Gizmo doesn't comprehend the math.  He really sucks at it.  He's a "literate boy," but not one of the "mathboyz."

Give it a break please.  Let others enjoy and be involved without the negativity you are starting to bring on.  Please.  Thank you.

Hey all,

GreenGuy is back on.  I got a phone call from some unintelligent police officer Down-under telling me GreenGuy was locked up.  Oh lord!  I posted his bond and he is out of that jail this morning!  I think it was a high speed pursuit by the unintelligent cops working for a living, GreenGuy just got wiped out at the bac table and he looks at the dealer, picks up the shoe, throws it in the middle of the pit and reaches in and grabs a hand full or two of chips.  Gets to his car and later is picked up by those cops on patrol.  Led them on a 300 mile high speed pursuit in the outback and finally took 9 of them to handcuff him.  His car ran out of gas!   Fast forward, he is out of jail! 

Welcome back.  Didn't someone say, 'Can't we all just get along'?

Quote from: AsymBacGuy on June 01, 2018, 09:24:40 PM
Ok Al, a 0.25% mistake is quite acceptable :-))

as.

Only because  my great grandmother comes from that town in between Naples and Sorrento, Torre Annunziata where they used to have like 100+ pasta factories before the war and now there is like only 2 left.  I forgive you.

Quote from: AsymBacGuy on June 01, 2018, 09:11:36 PM
Xander is absolutey right, but I'd change his words in "nobody CAN'T DEMONSTRATE to win itlr without an edge".

If anybody can demonstrate to win at games without a mathematical edge he would be millionaire without placing a dime on the felt.
The problem is to present a valid scientific evidence of such claim.

Every other attempt to say "hey, I'm consistently winning" without scientifically proving it is a total mere bighornshit. No matter how good or smart will appear the author or the hypothesis involved at the start. 
Especially whether such winning players are placing red or, rarely, green chips.

A final world: Glen hadn't written worse ideas than anybody else and, hey, he's not wagering red or green chips at the table. So i would use more respect for him.

as.

And you are 'almost' exactly correct, I can't agree 100%, lets just say 99.75% (LOL). 

I wager red chips for the dealers, LOL.  I wager stacks of green at a min., the ajority fo the times.  Anyways, I win a heck of a lot greater than I lose and when I lose it is always replaced with wins and I have all kinds of funds that are from my tangible reward from the risk.  I am writing a piece on that as a final thought on it since some people here cloud the air with their twisting and turning of words written or expressed.

This made my day at 2:04PM, a huge cup of coffee and 2 after lunch donuts for this one!

From Gizmo:  "I don't mind people disagreeing and even embarrassingly taking turns to defensive expressions if they lose it. I like watching people losing their cool. It means that they have lost their capacity to back up a position. Like it or not they are taking a position."

Which just happened within this thread, 110%!

Okay, I am leaving anyway.   

Quote from: Blue_Angel on June 01, 2018, 06:20:03 PM

Why those people you are talking about don't step forward to prove what you are claiming?
How do we know if you are talking about a small minority or the vast majority??
All we have are your claims, nothing more.
If you want to buy the forum and make it the way you consider proper it's all fine with me since I'm not planing to stay around much longer.
Last but not least, I don't give a stuff about your personal life because you are not my friend or relative.
Do you get it?!

Excellent, the end, over.  We see eye-to-eye perfectly.  We are past the planning stages as you suggest thou.  But do appreciate your thoughts and comments and wishes.

Quote from: Blue_Angel on June 01, 2018, 04:57:43 PM

By whom you had complaints?
A true man must keep his word, support it with actions and speak directly straightforward rather than hiding behind others and creating gossips and rumors.

The only thing worth answering, IMO--is the statement you made:  "By whom you had complaints?
A true man must keep his word, support it with actions and speak directly straightforward rather than hiding behind others and creating gossips and rumors", as I want the record straight here.

Yes, I did receive several complaints and statements as to why active posters that were extremely well liked and thought of, IMO and the opinion of many others here-was you and a few others in your responses and constant degradation and belittling and everything else about others opinions/findings and statements, etc., cause them frustration and aggravation of sorts--so that is why they cease post any longer or cut down about 99% of what they used to.  I forwarded these in part, after getting permission from the original PM'er to myself as the privacy act and protocol that goes with PM's that you guys do not think exist, and Vic has some of them. 

Vic, care to comment??  Did I or did I not send you several/numerous complaints, concerns and reason why many members here stop posting and became extremely less active over the past year or longer??  Vic, confirm or deny, for the benefit of the record please. 

That is all I have to say about this subject matter.  My decision to cut way down and/or not post regarding the way I used to was based upon the people I named, as well as the lack of response/interaction and concern.  Why waste my time?  Same as my little 5 year old, if I do not sit down and color with him, play with his matchbox and hot wheels, ride bikes with him, swim with him, watch TV with him, play with play-dough with him, etc., etc., he will not either.  He might as well stand in the corner after school until bed time.  Since I have other things to do, I will do those things instead of spending time on the board.  I gave my reasoning and it is the 100% truth, reality and factual thought process, but a few select guys here turn it around as to the made up fragile ego and other untrue and assumed BullS**t you and Xander and another one or two will state. 

For the record, the brutal and honest truth.  Forward now with positive and board concerns and my visions as approved, endorsed and desired by Vic, etc.  News Desk, Live Skype or similar, practice tables, competition, studio type broadcast (not defined yet), maybe even an elite group of professional full time baccarat gamblers and charge them $1.49 monthly subscription fee just to say it is a premium exclusive club or something like that, LOL. Whatever. 

From Gizmo:  "They all want a simple, step by step, set of rules that will make gambling like taking money out of an ATM machine. If it takes work and a lot of experience then they don't want it. Who's fault is that?"

Ref Hard Work, Etc.:

You know, I came in at 4:15AM this morning to catch up on all my company invoicing and clear up a huge problem with a national department store closing 130 or so of its mall based department stores with auto centers.  We are doing about 2 dozen of the auto centers, their environmental waste and handling of the products, lift oil draining and battery shelf acid and clean up, etc.  Their disposal bills are astronomical and the corporate big-wigs had a complete fit yesterday.  Over $200,000.00 for less than 15 stores I am handling, just the disposal fees, not our fees which are equal or greater than those fees.  Thank the EPA for the disposal fees and the left-side the past few years on that one.  Anyway, I got side tracked with your post but it was a good time to set straight everything anyway.

My primary (unofficial field manager) guy walks in this morning at 6:30AM.  He is supposed to be hear at 7AM.  I knew something was brewing on that one.  Employees don't come early around here any longer.  His paycheck last week for right at $3,800.00.  40 hours at $42.00 hour, raised from $35.00 last year and that was raised from $28.50 the year before I think it was and I think 25 hours overtime at double time.  Anyway, he gets a tons of benefits from a small company such as ours.  Health policy that was co-paid at 50% up to last year and he demanded full 100% company paid health which my partner gave him 6 months ago, and matching 401K contributions, etc.  This morning he says, "Listen, I want a company Apple phone at no charge as well as a company car and I will put my own gas in it or I will resign".  I said, I will call and recommend to my partner, but up to him, I turned in my resignation my partner already but he did not accept yet and I am finishing up my jobs and the summer. 

He is worth it, he has a clean CDL license, he drug and alcohol test free every time, he is certified in large excavators/track hoes, skid steers, side dumps and dump trucks, vac trucks and he can do soil and water testing for the laboratory procedures we do.  He has shoring and trenching certification and Haz-whopper also, etc.  The guy is pulling down with benefits about $250k a year, he did not grad college.  He is smart, works hard and never complains at a job site, even 20 hours straight out there on the interstate, he gets the job done, when the others are crying and threatening to quit.  It would take 3 regular employees to replace him alone and he knows it. 

There are not many of these types going around, he out works most small business owners I see every day.  The guy lives in a neighborhood with doctors and lawyers and business owners and he works for us operating heavy equipment and driving a truck.

The kicker is, all his peers, co workers here and everywhere else, has about 20%, of what this guy has and makes, if that! 

Quote from: Gizmotron on June 01, 2018, 03:54:18 PM

That is why I started this thread. Jimske asked if I was getting tired of these same old arguments. So I found a way to take it to the next level. Why is there an assumption that you must have an edge in order to win? Who is feeding these facts to the world? Are they right?

To answer your question, I have no edge over the casino that I can identify, likewise the casino has a 'mountain' (rather than an edge)  over myself, a real player with real cash.  That mountain that they have is 'Time' and 'Unlimited Chip Inventory' as well as the emotional and psychological problems/confusion and slip from reality that I inflict upon myself at certain times while gambling. 

However, I found a way to turn the tables slightly on the casinos and it has nothing to do with systems and math and statistical results in the classical sense, etc.

Quote from: Jimske on June 01, 2018, 02:53:51 PM
LMAO.  You really expected him to just moderate?

Glen has finally wiggled his way into being the decider, ruler of the roost, king of the castle, . . . Very "Trumpian."  Notice how EVERY post must be about him in some way - even in his reply to the above!!!!!  So now we have a moderator who is a control freak, narcissistic bully.

At the same time Glen has no problem making condescending and/or sarcastic remarks about how others perceive and play the game.

Jimske

I used to watch the Apprentice with endorsement of Donald!  The show was not about him, was it?

Actually my cousin worked for Donald for 20 years at the Taj or so and when he cleaned out his desk a little bit ago (a couple of years back now) he gave me the original and one of 3 copies of the book that built the Taj.  I also have a Silver & Gold belt buckle Donald gave me by in the early 90's at a baccarat tournament (those great old bac tournaments in AC and Vegas that went by the way side). 

It is not about me!  It is about sharing, something you seem to forget about also.

Here, I will share:  https://betselection.cc/alrelax's-blog/trump-taj-atlantic-city-and-donald-trump/msg57352/#msg57352

What's wrong with Trump?