Below picture is a non commission Bad Beat bac table with a $5,000.00 max per hand limit.  It is also a MIDI/Macau style players peel the cards.  Note what I did to the 8 card peeling it back.  $20.00 three card 8/9 wager, 200:1, dealer is cutting out my win as I snapped the picture.

A great view in the morning traveling east.

Well, I might have posted a picture of my little buddy here a few years back.  Actually misplaced him and never really searched for him.  Came across him under a pile of clothes in a drawer the other night.

I bring him in my pocket to the casino and occasionally when I or the entire table are calling for a monkey, pull him out.  Yes, he is solid gold and about the size of a thumbnail. 

Call it superstitious or quackery, it does bring smiles and pats on the back when it works. 

Quotealelax above:

"...If I am not within the same days drive from the casino I go to, I am fine staying at a local motel (paying out of pocket) and eating at non casino restaurants 100%.  Although most places I play, $30-$50 meal comps are almost never a problem.  However, I just don't really enjoy the same places with the same menus.  Coupled with the aura of being in the casino versus outside of it, 'in the free world'. ..."

    I agree 100% about getting out of the casino for fresh air/ to let my brain calm down from all the bells/sirens from the slots.
I usually play during the day /during week at most of my casino markets. However, one market I go to on weekends or maybe (thurs-fri-sat) has five casinos and typically I meet a group there every couple weeks. I often get a Hampton Inn ($90--105), especially if my wife travels with me, that is about 15mins from each casino. I then book/give my free rooms at two of the cas to group members that have driven in from out of state. WinWin for everyone and I can play at any of them for as much or little as I desire(& eat wherever I want).

A lot of people will not agree or understand, but a good hit of thousands of dollars quickly or even if fought for, with a recovery of the drawdown and then a subsequent good hit, the brain is not in full untouched consciousness and very very physiologically aroused and with increased stimulated emotions that will probably affect your wagering decisions. 

Although I am in no way a psychiatrist or any kind of neurologist, I know how the brain functions and how  truly unaffected total consciousness without stimuli is an advantage, we all get sucked in and fall prey. 

And, taking the above into consideration, the following I attempt to adhere to.

Yes, I rather be in an off property motel/hotel and eat elsewhere by far.  On property, no matter if I am pushing even or winning, I am still thinking of those tables out on the floor within a few minutes walk.  Uncomfortable.  Meanwhile, if off property there is a whole other sense of comfortableness I encounter. 

Local restaurants, different foods and varied atmospheres I rather surround myself with rather than on property. 

As far as the "Golden Talons pays 10-1 for either a Player or Banker 3-card 9 and 75-1 when each has a 3-card 9."

That is already included in the Five Treasures bac game with their "Heavenly 9" side bet, which is directly opposite the Blazing 7s, 50:1 and 200:1 payouts.

DEEP DISH REALITY!

There's not a single book, not a single research paper, not a detailed audited video of a series, etc., etc.,  that will show guaranteed and systematic wins.  PERIOD.  There is none, never have been—never will be, none, zero, zip, zilch, nada!

There are numerous clowns and goons that say, post and attempt to sell systems pretending that they repeatedly prevail winning within the game. And there are just as many that will post garbage and attempt to sidetrack any reasonable factual and truthful people posting. Sad but true. 

What I said is all easily searchable but the Internet is the Internet and countless will be overtaken by the virtual lies and made up fairytales that people tell and the ones on YouTube are pretty darn attractive I will admit.

There most certainly is opportunity on the baccarat table. Not one doubt, but you must have some kind of knowledge of the game, common sense and have the stomach to risk money. But you must understand there is winning and losing and have a concrete money management method that will work for you and give you an advantage.

And let's all remember those countless people posting, "wait for this or that" and then "wager so-and-so on such and such". LOL, guaranteed losing propositions, but once again, the Internet is the Internet.

What about all those with their triggers, they are claiming nearly 100% or even 80-90%.  And all with their justification so systematically laid out. Looks like research, looks like experienced and advantaged secretive play, and so many other things to the person stumbling upon it. My response?  Fantasy and fallacy. 

And those that say to watch and watch and wager only a wager or two or three with some kind of small stop loss amount.  My response?  Well here it is. Uneventful failure is not a success. Because you do not lose you cannot justify not winning with success, it is a catastrophic failure of play. 

Do you want to do something to give yourself some type of advantage? You have to focus on winning. Realizing your buy-in is risk and understand how to turn your risk into profit, while using a buy-in that is a percentage of a bankroll and everything the highest majority of the time is governed by a rock solid Money Management Method you truly abide by.  Abide by in Winning, Losing and Pushing sessions.

Be Careful, Be Smart, Be Advantaged!

Kungfubac,  As you wrote, "Plus, Im guessing some players may prefer and like the Midi tables for a slower more dramatic type experience. Maybe other reasons Im not considering."

The central and upper Midwest area has countless casinos that do have midi bac and the shoes take the extra amount of time, the same as Vegas or AC, etc. Usually if a casino has 6 tables of bac, probably 3 are mini and 3 would be midi style.  If 2 were open, they would have 1 mini and 1 midi.

While there is not the traditional high limit rooms, as you stated the bac is usually a section of the main floor or situated at the end or off to the side of the main floor pits. 

Personally, years ago I would never have never played outside of the Vegas, AC or Connecticut markets, with their traditional high limit rooms, etc.  But into the 2000's I play to play and win money.  I don't care about the atmosphere, glitz, glam and a free line up of fresh fruit-drinks-seafood snacks and other foods for the high limit players found in the traditional high limit rooms. 

If I am not within the same days drive from the casino I go to, I am fine staying at a local motel (paying out of pocket) and eating at non casino restaurants 100%.  Although most places I play, $30-$50 meal comps are almost never a problem.  However, I just don't really enjoy the same places with the same menus.  Coupled with the aura of being in the casino versus outside of it, 'in the free world'. 

Below picture is a non commission Bad Beat bac table with a $5,000.00 max per hand limit.  It is also a MIDI/Macau style players peel the cards.  Note what I did to the 8 card peeling it back.  $20.00 three card 8/9 wager, 200:1, dealer is cutting out my win as I snapped the picture.


(Attaching picture, please check back, problems to resize I think?)

In the Midwest USA there are plenty of casinos offering non commission EZ Bac or Five Treasures bac with no commission max limits of $5,000 and $10,000 per hand.  There is one upper Midwest casino with off the street, $25/50/100 min to maximum $1000,000 limit.  Yes, One Hundred Thousand.

Side bets normally any where from $5.00 min to $200.00 maximum.  Below is a picture of a $40,000.00 Blazing 777s side bet table shot. 

I am in the middle of writing a detailed post which will include the 4 types of bac games going today that dominate the field with NO COMMISSION.

B/P/T and Dragon
B/P/T, Dragon and Fortune 7
B/P/T and the Five Treasures layout
B/P/T and the Bad Beat layout

Here is a picture of an EZ Bac table with no commission.  Note the 3 betting spots per seat.  2 are for back bettors standing or sitting behind the main seated player. 

Most of the casinos in the central and upper Midwest have these with limits anywhere from $1,000 to $10,000 max per hand.  Also if the seated player allows it, another can cap their wagers if no spot is available. 

"An arrest warrant has been reissued for a Massachusetts millionaire who failed to appear in court Wednesday to answer charges he wrote two bad checks to Bellagio totalling $1.5 million."

Click on the following link to read the story as detailed out in the Las Vegas Review Journal:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/warrant-issued-for-millionaire-accused-of-writing-1-5m-in-bad-checks-to-bellagio-3187092/?utm_campaign=widget&utm_medium=latest&utm_source=crime&utm_term=Warrant%20issued%20for%20millionaire%20accused%20of%20writing%20%241.5M%20in%20bad%20checks%20to%20Bellagio

Also try:

https://betselection.cc/wagering-intricacies/reality-advantaged-winning-continuing-series/msg72156/#msg72156

I know it's long, but it is real!

https://betselection.cc/wagering-intricacies/real-money-management-method-to-actually-assist-you/msg69401/#msg69401

The following is an article I came across about professional gamblers and others in reference to the Dragon 7 or the Fortune 7 exploitation bet.  The article was written by Max Rubin with references to Dr. Elliot Jacobson, with that misinformation article a while back that was published on the Wizard of Odds forum.

I will put my two cents in here before I copy and paste the article. One side of wagering for a Fortune 7 also known as the Dragon 7, 40:1 wagers is the following.  IMO, experience and knowledge about the wager-for myself and my protocols of wagering for it, is that I like it.  Although I do not wager constantly and repetitiously for it. I have a greater than 50% rate on it and have profited from it quite well in the past several years. Like everything in the game a baccarat, if you wager on anything repetitiously you will eventually be ground down and lose all your buy-ins as well as your bank roll.

The simple fact that is indisputable reality, concrete solid reality is most will only talk about, is that the game of baccarat can be counted down along with several of its side bets. But as Max Rubin says, within this article, is the huge $100,000 plus bank roll a player will need to have for a possible return of somewhere around $25 an hour. Go figure.  Well said! 

In theory, talkers are great but the bottom line is, in theory and not at the tables in reality. In reality the game is presented completely different than the math and the theory it appears to have.

START ARTICLE.  On the Friday before G2E, Dr. Elliot Jacobson published a short paper at wizardofodds, which illustrated how a card counter could theoretically exploit the Dragon 7 wager on EZ Baccarat and win a quarter of a betting unit per hour.

By the time the show was in full swing, the article had convinced a number of table game operators that the Dragon 7 wager was so dangerous that the now-popular EZ Baccarat side bet should be modified or removed. 

This is a perfect example of how a little bit of (published) information can be a dangerous thing. The reality is that offering players EZ Baccarat—with the Dragon 7 wager—is one of the easiest—and smartest—decisions a table game manager can make, for one simple reason:

Professional advantage players simply will not play EZ Baccarat and count down the Dragon 7 wager. Why? It's one of the least profitable advantage plays a competent professional can (or will) make.

To understand why, let's look at the math, as proposed by Dr. Jacobson. In a perfect world, assuming that the casino were to deal a full eight-deck shoe every hour (which they don't), if the player were to wager $100 on the side wager every time there was a slight advantage, the player could harvest a whopping $25 an hour.

And that's if the conditions were perfect. By perfect, I mean that they would be able to sit on the game for hours on end without making a single Player or Banker wager (impossible) and that they would also be assured of getting a full 80 hands an hour (nearly impossible, as well) and have no need to tip (after hitting a $4,000 bonus—highly unlikely).

If that weren't enough to dissuade the pros or wanna-be pros from tackling the game, in order to make that near-impossible $25 an hour, they would also have to be willing to risk a $100,000 bankroll on the high-volatility $100 wager to avoid an unacceptable risk of ruin. And then they'd have to factor in expenses (travel, lodging, etc.).

In fact, it would be much easier for a seasoned pro (or even a novice counter) to grind out an easy $25 an hour earn—with a much smaller bankroll and a limited risk of exposure—by simply playing existing blackjack games (shoes, 6/5 or Superfun, you name it), the same games they've been exploiting for years. Or they could play some other games/side bets that are more easily exploitable, including Caribbean Stud (which can be played at a 2.3 percent advantage on every hand with shared information and miniscule bankrolls), Mississippi Stud (at more than 3 percent) with shared information and Shuffle Master's "Margin of Victory" Dragon Bonus, which can return a 10th of a betting unit each shoe with a very small risk of bankroll ruin. Yet none of these games has been assaulted by the pros; they're just not worth the time or effort. 

There are two kinds of advantage players—those who talk about it and those that make a living at it—and I don't know a single professional advantage player worth his salt who would even think about sitting on a game on which he would make that measly $25 an hour. But I digress.

The proof that savvy table game operators should continue to offer EZ Baccarat and the Dragon 7 wagers is indisputable; long before Dr. Jacobson released his paper, the pros were aware that game could be counted down, yet none of them played it and in virtually every instance in which an EZ Baccarat game has replaced a conventional baccarat game, the EZ game has made the casino more money.

To further clear up any confusion, check out what Jacobson himself said following the show:

"For the record, I don't believe the Dragon is vulnerable in a significant way. The typically low house limit as well as the high variance of the wager will make it unappealing to professional players. I don't think any changes need to be made to the game to protect it."

Jacobson further explained, "The potential earnings are small and the volatility is enormous. It would require an immense amount of time and a huge bankroll to yield a very small long-term profit. Any casino that removes the Dragon 7 wagers from EZ Baccarat based on my article is making a mistake. No competent advantage player will attack it. Like blackjack, the fact that it can be counted in theory is more likely to draw valuable customers. However, unlike blackjack, no undue measures need to be taken to protect it. I strongly believe my analysis will help those casinos that place EZ Baccarat make more income from the game, not less."

I've known about the theoretical possibilities of beating the Dragon 7 wager for almost a year, yet as a consultant for Barona casino, I have urged them to continue offering EZ Baccarat and the Dragon 7 wager—which they have, with great success.

Should table game operators fear professional Dragon hunters? The answer is no. Why? Because there aren't any.

The following is an article written by Roger Gros, IMO a fantastic and super intelligent casino expert. 

Ethical actions versus unethical actions by casino executives exists, in the past as well as today.  The difference is, in the past it was blatant and today it is, "let's see how we can manipulate and still be within the rules and regulations we have to abide by". 

Anyway, what Roger Gros is referring to in Atlantic City, is where I got my start in gaming and introduction to high limit baccarat.  I have written about it before.  OMG, the baccarat rooms and pits were ungodly busy with stacks of money being thrown up on the tables and exchanged for chips.  Although Roger highlights the movie, 'Owning Mahowny' (which by the way is worth watching) the majority of the money back then brought in by players, was from their businesses in the New York City, Northern New Jersey and Philadelphia markets.  Legal money as well as illegal was brought in and accepted, no background checks of course and only federal CTR's when the $10k limit within 24 hours was hit.  No SAR's or anything of the type.  $10k - $50k was really not out of the norm by any means whatsoever. 

Side Note.  The casino hosts were the front line defense as well as the offense for their employers, the casinos.  The hosts would alert their players when they approached certain levels of play and how to avoid being CTR'd, etc.  As well, a large amount of players would play under fictitious names and their hosts would check them in to the hotel, obtain their room keys, all without the player ever being ID'd. 


Start Article.  When I was a dealer in Atlantic City in the late 1970s and early '80s, I saw a lot of unethical behavior by casino executives. After spending some time as a blackjack dealer (a long time!), I became a baccarat dealer and was promoted to deal in the busiest pit in the city at the time. In those days, Atlantic City was a boomtown. Millions of dollars crossed the tables in that pit every day, and some of it was what we'll call ill-gotten gains.

Now, the baccarat pit was dark, and had many columns creating different segments. Back in its recesses stood a phalanx of blackjack tables that were usually busy, but in the daytime, it was quiet. It was during those times certain characters, escorted by top-level casino executives, would show up with small suitcases. They would be filled with money and the process of a "buy in" would begin. I remember, one day I counted out $500,000, and passed the chips off to the player, who played one hand (for $500) and cashed in.

Now, to be clear, while I think this was clearly unethical, at the time, it was not illegal. It was the days before money laundering laws were put into place, or the "$10,000 rule" as we called it then, which required casinos to record and obtain identification of players who engaged in transactions in excess of that figure.

In another event, I was brought in specifically to deal to a "rich" Canadian gambler. He didn't look rich, wearing a flannel shirt and jeans. But he was the fastest baccarat player I ever saw, and there were only a few dealers who could keep up with him, playing $10,000 to $50,000 a hand. It turns out, he was a bank clerk from Toronto who was embezzling money from his bank and gambling at the casino. The incident was later made famous by a movie, Owning Mahowny, which I haven't seen yet. I wonder who played my part. But because the casino failed to investigate the source of his funds, a severe penalty was charged, with the casino forced to close for two days.

Neither of these events was technically illegal, but they were certainly unethical and no doubt, 30 years later, are today illegal.

These days, there are enough rules and regulations to control these kinds of things, but there are still many ethical issues that need to be addressed.

We have many examples, some of which are emanating from Macau these days. Questions about the VIP operators, the effectiveness of the Macau regulations and the commitment to anti-money laundering programs abound. Are background checks even conducted there? In many ways, Macau regulations are like Nevada regulations in the 1950s and '60s. While many jurisdictions understand and accept that Macau is going through these regulatory growing pains, others won't wait.

In many areas of the world, gaming regulations are being scaled back because of the economy. While the casino industry applauds this move for the most part, there needs to be a combined effort between the industry and government to ensure that while unnecessary regulations are eliminated, integrity does not suffer.

And of course it's in the casino industry's best interests to focus on integrity. If the games aren't secure and the operators aren't squeaky clean, the industry is at risk.

And as we move into the legalization of online gaming, ethics become that much more important. There is so much potential for abuse (which we've seen clearly by the illegal operators), if major licensed casino companies become involved, it's important that the operations and regulations are transparent and fair.

Now, I don't mean to suggest there's an absence of ethics in the gaming industry today. There's not. In fact, most of the gaming executives I know are completely ethical, almost to a fault. But we're entering a new phase in the industry, by inviting in online partners and operating in a financially depressed market. The pressures to do something that may be considered unethical are growing, and hard to resist sometimes if the payoff seems acceptable.

In my view, however, there is no payoff to conducting yourself unethically. You wouldn't sell your soul, and in a sense, that's what you're doing when you lack ethics. Let's keep gaming on the straight and narrow so we never have any questions about whether we're doing our best for our customers, our employees and the shareholders in the enterprise.