So many live for these types of shoes, then when they do appear just about the entire table is in real-life denial and wagering for the opposite side to match or just a continuous wagering for the so called, cut.  By the way, the last three natural bankers in the second run back to back, were all natural 9s over players natural 8s.  Which fueled the furious wagering on players. 

[attachimg=1]

You wrote, " IOW the finiteness of Bac does present us with a limiting-type profile on most patterns. Just my thoughts/opinion."

Exactly correct.  Times it will help us and yet, at times it can hurt us.  Can a whole shoe be very strong?  Sure.  Can a whole shoe be extremely weak?  Sure.  But usually, as a norm it will be a mixture of both. 

Mind-sets are helpful and as well, dangerous. 

As you wrote, "More often than not, long streaks are just an 'incident' happening along the way, so restarting the more natural process of  two-card math favorite situations."

Players confuse themselves terribly with chasing 'incidents'.  Defining them cause the highest majority to chase, wait, continue wagering, etc., and IMO it is dangerous.  The incidents will always come and go quickly. 

Problem is, if you win on defining an incident almost always you will give back and lose additional funds in front of yourself by wagering for it again and again.  Why?  Because you have just convinced yourself of a definable opportunity. 

Players will find all kinds of incidents and there are many many so called incidents coming out of the shoe.  Not just long streaks.

But yes, many times after long streaks there are sections of chops, but my experiences of chops can be two cards each side, or five cards, as well as six card total hands. 

It was banker, player and ties only.

There were always the paper scorecards and pens available. 

Camaraderie was huge.  Most players grouped up together the majority of the times. Best I can define it overall was strong and weak were large deciding factors in wagering.  Players held the shoe and dealt the cards, you held the shoe as long as you made a banker hand, no matter what side you wagered on.  Once a player hand was made, the shoe traveled to your right, next player seated. 

Dealers could not get tapped out until a player hand was made as well.  A rack fill could not be engaged in as well until a player hand was made. 

On any streak, on any chop chop, the house lost large amounts of money.  Almost all big bac tables were $100 min.  Mini bac was out in the main floors, usually $25 min. But dealer dealt the cards and flipped them always.

In addition, after a lengthy discussion with two bac players the other night, I add the following comments.  Yes, they probably  have all been said at one time or another, but they are factual and prevalent to a positive game if used with a clear mind.

* Excuses not to wager something are always there for the player to cite and believe in;

* Why do you need a pattern/trend that is redundant, consistent or reappearing before wager on it, etc., etc.?;

* Why not wager on the hands while they are appearing and accept it as a Random-Trend/Pattern?  Seriously does winning thousands of dollars off a pattern that no one believes in and is 100% happening, hand after hand, spend any different from wins that come much harder in nature?;

* Why do you have to be 'ahead' of the shoe in predicting the cuts and changes or even the beginning of a redundant pattern, rather than just following the shoe presentments for select sections?

* We hear all the time, "it has to stop/cut", "it has to run", "such and such a card came out so that means ........", etc.  Well, figuring it all out is exactly why the casinos put those electronic score boards there, LOL.  You want to know something, years ago prior to 2000 or so, the casinos had no score boards and they had larger 14 player/3 dealer tables where the players would actually deal the cards.  But the casinos repeatedly got hurt so they changed the way the game was played, dealt and wagered on. 

KungFuBac,

#A1, has the answer to your previous "How do you deal with 3 or 4 iar" losses, etc. 

" But all in all, the baccarat player must risk a certain buy-in.  If it happens, it happens.  If he does not win with that buy-in, it generally will not happen even with continued buy-ins."

Please read it, as I believe this is one of the best and most detailed informative posts I ever made. (?)

What the common mistaken belief is, that the order of the winning hands and the trends or patterns can be changed to suit the bettor. 

Reality is, when it is strong for one side, it remains strong.  When it is weak for either or both sides, it remains weak.  Nothing can change anything from happening. 

>>>>>"a state of balance between opposing forces or actions" will always be there, the only question is when does it dominate and form perfect or near perfect patterns.

Problem for almost all bettors is, their belief that they should follow their experiences as well as what the shoe has previously proven or not proven.  I know that is a catch all statement, but and seriously BUT, the equilibrium usually prevails the highest majority of the times when it approaches - or + 10 and once again right at the - or + 20 mark, especially around the middle of the shoe. 

The first part of the previous paragraph means, although it might seem beneficial it probably is contradictory to the shoe being played out.

There are numerous factors that must be taken into consideration when wagering for the 'equaling' out.

You are exactly right! 

I also heard the same thing on a tv show about the financials regarding that. 

After playing for an extensive time, baccarat players have plateaus.  Some recognize this and many do not.  I bring this up because I got into a conversation with several players at a casino the other night.  There was 2 others with considerable experience and  the other 5 with varying experience from a few months to a year or 2.  The longer playing players had conciseness of their 'plateaus' which I define as where a player can get to in the terms of possible wins. 

I wholeheartedly believe that we will all have one sizable win in our playing endeavor/careers and then we idle along a relatively level surface of ups and downs, which could be compared to that of a field with valleys  and ridges.  The valleys and ridges represent wins and losses.  Every once in a while the player is able to stray from the field and find a nice mountain where he is able to challenge his own 'plateau'. 

With clear mind, a good progression, money management and being 100% conscious of the surroundings the player has his chances to conquer and surpass his previous plateau. This is not an every session chance to locate those mountains as the fields are quite lengthy to get through and come about the opportunities.  Think of it more along the lines of exploring.

And I might add, attempting to surpass your plateau in every session will prove devastating, which is what so many attempt to do.

Think about those things.

Watch this, a classic.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDu3IysKiM

I am putting this under General Discussion because it is more general than baccarat purpose. 

Serious members such as Asym,  Kung fu, etc., please take the time to read it, especially the second page.  Yes some are my long winded posts, but I do think fact-filled. 

So many casino writers that engage in life or death drama with extreme vengeance and Internet everyday wherewithal! 

As I point out in my post #15 on the second page, casino writers push and push their made up fake beliefs that sound good but are absolute trash.

Link:  https://betselection.cc/index.php?topic=6525.0

Thanks for the post!  Alrelax

Quote from: AsymBacGuy on April 11, 2022, 12:06:24 AM
Al wrote The limitations are within each person playing.

This statement is very interesting to be commented, we'll see it in a couple of days.

as.

I saw it last night, I will attempt to put it into words.  Possibly it can help a few.  Will post later tonight.

Notes to the above from actual experience over years of B & M play.

P streaks and 'stronger' P than B is by far appearing with greater consistency then the B streaks and B 'stronger' in excess of a shoe here and there, or should we say 'consistently' while playing day in and day out, etc.

Reference "beat the game by betting many bets per shoe".  What so so many just never learn or realize, it is much better to bet larger, harder and more serious while limiting the sections we engage in BY FAR!  But not always easy to do.  Seriously.

The bias level will come and go, shoe by shoe, trip by trip.  P >bias, P <bias, B >bias and B <bias.  TRUE, but the 'trick' is to get the spot the other side attempts the instant comeback without being biased by YOUR OWN THOUGHTS, IDEAS, AGENDAS and EXPERIENCES, ETC.   Again no so easy to do.  Think about it.

'Random' Coincidence (define).   IMO it is:  'improbable' will happen—does all the time and often to the 'I can't believes' and the 'oh wow look at that, wows'.  Couple the 'exploitable' bias in along with the 'improbable'.  "We must choose what will be the best course of action to take".  Absolutely hands down!  Merge and side with instead of fighting against, what so so many players cannot seem to accomplish. 

You can't always adhere to your own terms and understanding of what the shoe is presenting (blaming in on the cards, the table, the dealer, the pit people, other players, the particular casino, etc.). And that in itself is super valuable if you can use it simply to your insight properly.  Not improperly as almost all do by blaming a non related cause such as I gave examples of in the parenthesis above. 

The limitations are within each person playing.

As I said in #5 of the above post I made:  " 5)  Convincing Yourself of Something Guaranteed.   No matter what it is.  Flat betting, wagering after such and such happens or did not happen.  A strict adherence to O.L.D. or W.L.D. or anyone of the other 10-20 rock-solid good wagers to follows as written about, posted and dwelled over anywhere on the internet message boards, forums, websites, paid sites, etc.  Along with the many other gamblers fallacies of Cuts, Trends, Triggers, Patterns, Clusters, Clumps, etc.  Or, just Hog-Wild, I am on a hot run and nothing can or will stop me and ultimately and with great consistent repetitiveness, give it back each and every single session, because you do not believe there are plateaus and levels that control you and what you have the ability to guide yourself through while wagering at the game of baccarat. "

Think about it.  Figure out what controls you at the table.  I have.