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#1
KungFuBac / Re: Top Ten Best Games/Bets
Last post by AsymBacGuy - Today at 09:57:11 AM
Interesting thread Kfb!

I agree with Al: there's a lot more than the HE to be considered before seating at a table or in front of a screen.

I'll make my comments on that next Sunday

Have a nice weekend!

as.
#2
KungFuBac / Re: Top Ten Best Games/Bets
Last post by alrelax - Yesterday at 12:36:55 PM
Reference Lists.  Lists are general as well as specific to any one source or concern. 

What applies to the Bellagio will be different to say a casino in the Midwest.  What applies to/from a mathematical statistical expert taking published house edges, etc., and multiplying those will be specific for a purpose of generalization. 

As well a casino that has 25 or so Baccarat tables will place bac a heck of a lot higher than another game on the same list, that rates higher than bac for a different casino.

And so on........
#3
KungFuBac / Top Ten Best Games/Bets
Last post by KungFuBac - Yesterday at 05:00:55 AM
A friend sent me this list. I wasn't surprised to see Bac in the top ten.  A little surprised to see sports betting in 3rd place. Though I don't know much about sports betting. I would have guessed Pai Gow Tiles would be a little higher, especially if evaluated as decisions per hour along with H.E..

In my opinion some games would likely be a little higher ranking if the criteria was how much one would lose by time played. As mentioned above slower-decision games such as Pai Gow Tiles may fair better. Games such as Craps line bets that are often calculated as average decisions for bet to get resolved will sometimes not be resolved for several hands (or often the first hand), so in my opinion they should be evaluated for these top ten lists on a per roll(or hand) basis.

What is your opinion? Any thoughts?

The orig author indicated the main selection criteria focused on:

Ratio of amount of money the player can expect to lose -to- total amount of money wagered, including subsequent wagers like doubling in blackjack, raising in ultimate texas holdem,...etc. Optimum strategy and only base bets.



List in order 10--1:

10.Mississippi Stud
Roulette
Baccarat
Pai Gow Tiles
Spanish 21
Blackjack
Ultimate Texas Holdem
Sports Betting
Video Poker
Craps



Orig author M. Shackleford


Continued Success,
#4
Alrelax's Blog / Re: Baccarat Before And Now
Last post by KungFuBac - January 30, 2023, 04:39:40 AM
Good read alrelax from your post above: Baccarat Before And Now

Good comparison on Pre2000 "1970s--1980s" TV with Then-and-Now in the Bac rooms: Pre2K and Post2K. I started playing along that time I think: post2000 or near that time.

"...Baccarat was a total different atmosphere pre-2000 and post 2000 wise that is. Pre 2000 clearly not so combative, without a doubt less systematic, staff and dealers actually trying to make the players comfortable, happy and resolve all problems prior to escalation without any doubt whatsoever.  Even the interaction among the players was generally one of total camaraderie and same side defense against the house, rather than I will wager against you and show you what a fool you really are, type of people. It really was like a TV show just generally a 2 1/2 hour classic show each episode instead of 30 minutes.  ..."


It seems most changes were made in the first 5-8 years into this period post 2000. Since 2010 I really haven't noticed anything new except a few more bonus bets added to EZ bac table layouts. I have noticed new RFID chips in past year--the cameras overhead read the bet size and they base ratings/comps from your actual bet size. So no subjectiveness or rating from the pit personnel.

It also seems the dress code has regressed some from 2000 to 2020. IMO players use to respect the Bac game and Bac room a little more. Players seemed to at least throw on a light sports coat or at least pants or nicer jeans with a polo. Now not so much. Part of that I think is that many casinos don't seem to have as many high-limit rooms and now maybe just section off a high-limit area of the floor. Plus the minibac tables are now often positioned within other table games and all in the same pit. So we get alot of passerbys just strolling by and deciding to play a few minutes,...etc.

Seldom saw a big table after 2010 or so/ only in vegas. re: the combativeness mentioned in the bold above. I really haven't noticed much of that then or now. I do see players opposing other bettors but seldom see other players trying to one up others. Maybe I just haven't noticed.

Thx and great read.


Continued Success,
#5
AsymBacGuy / Re: Why bac could be beatable ...
Last post by AsymBacGuy - January 30, 2023, 03:16:29 AM
Human mind, symmetry and edge

Human mind is somewhat 'biased' by constantly looking for simmetry. Several studies have shown that when subjects are instructed to write down 'random' successions applied to a binomial probability, a sure undeniable 'overalternating' feature affects the results.
More interestingly is that real random objective successions are perceived by subjects 'less random' whereas unrandom successions are mostly considered as 'randomly' formed.

At baccarat the vast majority of people bet along those 'simmetrical' lines (widely intended), at the same time privileging just one kind of asymmetry, that is the 'long' streaks possibility.

Then there are 'foolproof' systems that give the subjective 'guessing' a 0 impact as every outcome  must fall into well restricted ranges.
Those worthless systems are mostly based around several kind of gamblers fallacies that many times are fallaciously(!) overtaken by the best short term move anyone could think of: progressive betting.
Nonetheless objective flat bet findings alone cannot lead to any EV+ with one billion of accuracy.
 
Therefore and simplyfing a lot, a 100% subjective way of considering things is EV-, as well as it's EV- a strict objective system stubbornly looking for precise triggers.
So the 'truth' must be in the middle. At least according to the money we've collected over the years at bac tables.

At baccarat the possible player's edge is a dynamical issue, surely defined after having measured long term flat betting results.

No matter the fkng strategy we are going to utilize, either we'll catch more W spots than L spots (after vig impact) or we are destined to fail.

Mathematically there's no way to 'guess' right by inserting a kind of 'subjective' sole element in our strategy whether bac successions are really random.
The same if bac successions are kind of unrandom.

On the other end, 'obiective' findings that tend to mix many different baccarat productions (card distributions) are sensitive to huge volatility that only in the long term will approach the expected values.

Subjective and objective strategies are two different categories of random walks following the same math laws, sometimes converging into the same betting line and other times negating it.
And obviously there are more likely positive or negative steps converging at a same betting line  than events forming long series of 'outliers' that could be 'heaven' or 'hell'.

For casinos the only tools that matter are the math edge and the several gamblers fallacies affecting almost every player. 
Educated players can overcome such factors.

as.
#6
MEMBERS' REALITY & EXPERIENCES / Re: Summer 2023
Last post by AsymBacGuy - January 29, 2023, 09:25:46 PM
Mmmhhh I really like the Mohave desert, yet I'm not sure to drive a Dune Buggy through it  :D

as. 
#7
AsymBacGuy / Re: Why bac could be beatable ...
Last post by AsymBacGuy - January 29, 2023, 09:20:57 PM
Al: yep Golden Steer at West Sahara (close to the defunct Lucky Dragon casino) is a classic for steakhouse lovers.

I'm curious about 888 Korean BBQ....

What about your preferred list of seafood restaurants?

@KFB.
Nice simple way of classifiying what we should expect and what we actually see at the shoe we're playing at.
I'll be back on this later.

as.
 



#8
Alrelax's Blog / Baccarat Before And Now
Last post by alrelax - January 28, 2023, 11:54:43 PM
Before all the high-tech electronics, unlimited streaming, instant expert answers to virtually any and all questions and much much more, there was great television memories on ABC NBC CBS and PBS as the basic 4.  The sirens of Adam-12, the loud roar of the engine from the Munster Koach on The Munsters, motorists being chased down the highways by "CHiPs", the helicopter blades of "MASH", the lollipop sucking take no flack Kojak, action packed medical drama of EMERGENCY and of course, bad boy bright red with that large white vector stripe Ford Gran Torino (the real star LOL) of 'Starsky and Hutch'.

And somewhere between all the high tech and those great television shows were some fantastic off the wall Baccarat games for me in Atlantic City and occasionally in Vegas that I experienced.

Like when I want to revisit the comforts of pre-streaming television, I can turn to Nick, COZI, TV LAND and several other cable TV channels and fall right back into the predictable rhythms of the new opening scene and the conflict introduced just before that first commercial break which somehow, magically, gets resolved just before the closing credits roll, each and every show.

And you know what, back in those days the baccarat room was just about the same as watching those kind of TV shows. The conflict introduced before the first commercial break, that very same conflict totally resolved prior to the closing credits began was the equivalent as to how we all viewed the shoes we played out. After that it was on to another shoe without much remembrance of any type on the previous one.  Not very many people played for the long term or played and thought anything else besides, what was happening right then and there. 

And as with most all TV shows these days which are actually mini-series, miss the beginning one and you have no real idea as to what is happening or who is who, etc.

But really with the procedural and elaborately plotted serial shows as I dub them, these days part of the appeal in my opinion is to have a low barrier to entry. Simply uncomplicated, so viewers can 'Zone Out' and scroll through their phones and won't be missing much. As long as the viewers are into them from the beginning of the season. 

A depressing commentary on attention spans these days I know, but also a real testament to the irresistible draw of the familiar.  When something is missed, just fill it in with what the viewer believes. 

Baccarat was a total different atmosphere pre-2000 and post 2000 wise that is. Pre 2000 clearly not so combative, without a doubt less systematic, staff and dealers actually trying to make the players comfortable, happy and resolve all problems prior to escalation without any doubt whatsoever.  Even the interaction among the players was generally one of total camaraderie and same side defense against the house, rather than I will wager against you and show you what a fool you really are, type of people. It really was like a TV show just generally a 2 1/2 hour classic show each episode instead of 30 minutes. 

You know what I can't help but laugh over—-all the time, how back then when the shoe was hot, almost all the players every single time would be taking large sums of chips out of the rack all in concert with each other. And these days it's almost always the complete opposite,  because I think they are following some type of miniseries for the long run. One or two people these days will be winning and all the others will be losing.

I guess today's play in so many ways really does resemble today's TV miniseries shows. It requires a full season, long run commitment. Structured that way because of things the casino has done as well as the people playing and everything they read on the high-tech Internet.

Myself, I'd rather get into it for a few hours and get spit out at the end of the shoe, with or without a profit, but not dependent upon anything except 'section' presentments, rather than being hooked into an intricate narrative-long term saga that desires to swallow you whole and maintain your presence while you are controlled by the long run waiting for your conflict to be resolved.
#9
MEMBERS' REALITY & EXPERIENCES / Re: Summer 2023
Last post by alrelax - January 28, 2023, 01:36:58 PM
We are going here!

Care to challenge me on something?

Win money at some bac tables and play over at Dicks!!

https://dickslastresort.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/DLR_Fremont_8.5x14_Menu_Inserts_2022.pdf

Here's my challenge:

#1. 3 Shooter Glasses (of your choice)
#2. Mother Clucking Good Chicky Wings=1 Bucket
#3. Dicks Huge Wieners w/1 side each=X's 5 orders
#4. Not Yer Mama's Cheesecake Slice, and
#5. A Boozy Milkshake

That's my Challenge.

This is where we high five, yell and scream!  Oh yeah, I'm not shy in public either.  Understand?
#10
MEMBERS' REALITY & EXPERIENCES / Summer 2023
Last post by alrelax - January 27, 2023, 03:49:08 AM
Vegas Get Together

Exact date will be determined and posted in advance.

So far myself and AsymBacGuy.

Baccarat at numerous places of course.

Restaurants galore!  A few of my favorites are the following.  (Posted in Asym's thread, here's a link)
Post #755 within:  https://betselection.cc/index.php?topic=10695.msg70708;topicseen#msg70708

Now, I hereby challenge Asym and any other member to Dune Buggy racing, I've done this many times and it is great!: 

https://www.sunbuggy.com/lasvegas/Adventure-The-Vegas-Mini-Baja-Chase.sun?id=1


"VEGAS MINI BAJA CHASE

Our Famously Intense Desert Chase Expereince - not a tour like everywhere else this is a full on CHASE

This is the Las Vegas Off Road Dune Buggy Desert Race Driving CHASE EXPERIENCE everyone talks about (as seen on TV ALL OVER THE WORLD!) DRIVE LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AWAY WITH SOMETHING! The Primary Reason you're driving a SunBuggy desert racer is that no plain off-the-shelf vehicle could last 5 minutes on this insanely fun course!  Don't be duped by tours with plain store bought UTV's, Off Road Golf Carts can't traverse grades over 15% (read the dashboard warnings). Our Most Popular Las Vegas Off-Road run - a wild desert chase on 15,000 acres with the Las Vegas Strip in view from the tops of the dunes! Note that this is more than an Off-Road TOUR, rather a full on Off-Road CHASE!"

The Pinball Hall of Fame.  Another must do side attraction!:

http://www.pinballmuseum.org/