ASYM, you said that statistically you get more win on second attempt then first right?

If we do a reverse strategy?

If using the concept you explain we get

LW > WL /

and obviously WL/WW at this point because after a W stop.

If we reverse it shouldn't we get better results?

Obviously in this the 2 step didn't exist anymore because is just one step bet so the first one.

Had an interesting session this morning.

Up until today the longest stretch of a single dozen not hitting that I had personally dealt with was 26, which I caught the tail end of while running a Fib progression.  It almost wrecked my day for sure.

However, this morning's session saw a whopping 39 misses in a row on the 3rd dozen about 10 spins into my session.  This was actually good for me as I was running a reasonably safe "following" dozens mode of play and caught a nice streak of 28 wins in a row on that run.

I did start a modified Fib progression after 10 wins and actually got up to a few $100 wagers (the last one lost, obviously) on a $5 table!  (I know, last of the big time gamblers on the $5 table).

Anyway, it was a good morning and watching the lack of the 3rd dozen was fascinating to see.

AD

Chime in here if it's okay please.

Asym wrote, "After all most players follow the shoe and all of them are long term losers and trying to exploit the "following the shoe" approach mixed with the expectation guidelines needs a lot of experience and study that surely KFB and Alrelax got in their arsenal."

Finding and defining advantages from fallacy to tangible;

Applying a rock solid Money Management Method that works and you religiously abide by regardless of loss or win;

The ability to take uncertainty out of the picture.  Not easy but you have to. Taking uncertainty out of your conscious will allow a crucial skill for minimizing emotional chaos and allowing you an advantage to distinguish more between what is actually happening and presentments that have a much greater negativity of advantaged play.

The above 3 have proven themselves as great advantages IMO, in my actual brick & mortar play experience and allowing myself the ability to win far greater than what I lose. 

Let's take the second pattern happening at every shoe dealt, BP registration still stands.

A
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as.

Now we're taking care of the very first pattern coming out per every shoe dealt by an A (asymmetrical) or S (symmetrical) shape (according to the rules I've depicted in my post).
To make things easier let's consider just the BP sequence.

A
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Any decent bac soul will get the best of such a succession whatever the possible innumerable permutations such short list might produce (That's the beauty and the importance of assessing outcomes by a clustered or isolated parameter).

Anytime you'll register the very first pattern happening at every shoe dealt (providing to be really randomly shuffled), enlist it to a simple A/S table and let me know whether your findings are not correspondent to this brief list.


as.

Quote from: Whatswhats on January 05, 2026, 09:18:22 PMIn my test, probably is better to bet just one time, the second bet, so wait for a virtual loss on a 2 bet succession or in my way that use what b/p pattern succession is I and what is C, can happen that first bet isn't possible (because i use multiple player playing simultaneously with W/L succession so not B/P) and can happen that first bet isn't possible and second yes so I bet only on the second bet, and the entire shoes that I'm tracking is random 4 hands for shoes, so I enter in a shoes and 4 hands that is my amount of hand for I/C, and then I go next shoes to bet etc, so I work with Asym/sym on multiple shoes that together create a single shoes!

I'm not English so probably my explain isn't the best!

I understand what you've sayed, with your multiple registration you'll get some "conflicting" events where one line suggests a B bet and the other one the P bet.
Probably the second bet is best to assess a kind of asym/sym propensity, providing to abandon the plan after two-three losses happening at the same shoe (there's a reason for that I'll address in a future post).

KFB wrote:

However, my personal belief is that one can do both: Use expectations as a baseline or guide, yet, focus on the shoe at hand(currently right in front of us). IMO this is superior vs doing solely one approach.

Where I consider expectations-as-a-baseline a little more is when the shoe has significantly deviated from expectations(2-3 SD),...etc. Especially in the early part of shoe. Dependent on how extreme the limits have been approached.

I concur.

After all most players follow the shoe and all of them are long term losers and trying to exploit the "following the shoe" approach mixed with the expectation guidelines needs a lot of experience and study that surely KFB and Alrelax got in their arsenal.

Independently of the expectation, any moderate/strong deviation is the essence of the asymmetry, yet in turn asymmetry/asymmetry becomes a symmetrical situation, thus only asym/sym and sym/asym patterns remain asymmetrically placed. That's why, IMO, we need a fair amount of hands to possibly resolve the issue.

On the other end and as we've seen several times here, sym/sym patterns are way more likely to stop after short sequences as the game isn't symmetrical and independent by any means.

A question for KFB about this passage:

One of the easiest ways to approach an even-steven game: A) Play at EZ Bac tables, B)Side step 1 out of every 2 3c7 B wins.

Can you please elaborate the B) point?

Thanks in advance!

as.

Thx Alb. Good stats to ponder.
.

*The key metric to focus on:


Total hands: 56,746

Player wins (P): 28,038

Banker wins (B): 28,708

Raw Player WR: 49.41%

*A difference of B+670

-------------------------------------------------

Player wins (P): 154,176

Banker wins (B): 157,824

Total hands: 312,000

📈 Percentages

Player: 49.42%

Banker: 50.58%


*A difference of B+3648



Continued Success,

Hi Asym

Another group of fine posts up above.Ill comment more on the weekend as I have a couple addendum Qs.

I like:

"...On the other end no commission games will get an inferior ROI whenever a B 6 will win (Tiger/Lucky 6 tables) or when a B three card winning 7 will show up.

From a mere asymmetrical/symmetrical patterns point of view and besides the math implications, that means that we should have more reasons to bet P at Tiger/Lucky 6 tables and conversely to bet B at EZ baccarat tables..."


    One of the easiest ways to approach an even-steven game: A) Play at EZ Bac tables, B)Side step 1 out of every 2 3c7 B wins.



Continued Success,

alrelax up above (in part):

I agree w most of what you have written(and how you have phrased it), as for focusing on what is currently happening.


"..."Expectations are extremely dangerous to a player. By expecting presentations to be a certain way you are removing yourself from the reality of the shoe.

If you remove yourself from expectations of what should happen/ occur and how it should, you become impartial and more open to the possibility of what the shoe will produce.  You pay attention in a different perspective that will be to your advantage.

BAC is complex and your awareness is crucial to profitability. Expectations are great in planning and armchair quarterbacking, but at the table they are extremely dangerous and bankroll drainers in every aspect whatsoever."..."



However, my personal belief is that one can do both: Use expectations as a baseline or guide, yet, focus on the shoe at hand(currently right in front of us). IMO this is superior vs doing solely one approach.

Where I consider expectations-as-a-baseline a little more is when the shoe has significantly deviated from expectations(2-3 SD),...etc. Especially in the early part of shoe. Dependent on how extreme the limits have been approached.


Continued Success,