Quote from: warrior on July 05, 2017, 01:37:44 PM
Try betting 18 numbers on the inside and see what your payout is .

18 numbers are more than enough to boggle you down sooner or later.
You cannot win in long term by betting 12 or more numbers, as 'mrJ' has already said: ''12 numbers are many in any manner''. (1 dozen,2 lines, 3 corners, 4 streets, 6 splits, 12 singles)

I thought you were roulette pro but now I have doubts.

Quote from: warrior on July 05, 2017, 01:28:22 PM
Like I said you beat outside bets and the inside bets are the same .nothing suspicious about that.

With all due respect but outside and inside are not the same, their payouts is not the only difference.

Quote from: warrior on July 04, 2017, 01:08:34 PM
I like even money. The reason for that is the inside bets are just an Illusion .

You were the one who were claiming that you have a tremendous win record a few years back, additionally when user wannawin asked you back then about some hint of how you play you've replied that the only way are the ''inside'' bets...maybe you've forgot but I didn't.

This seems suspicious to say the least.

Quote from: TheMagician on July 04, 2017, 09:26:46 AM
In response to your last Question - I calculated the probability for THE SAME number showing up on all 6 wheels when all of them were spinning 1 time concurrently.

And why is this any different from betting 1 number for 6 spins on the same wheel??

Aren't both of the cases independent events, therefore 2.7% accumulated probability, simultaneously or not??

The only difference exists only if we increase the amount of numbers we bet per spin, no matter if are on 1 wheel only or more than 1 wheels on the same time.

For example if I bet 35 numbers for 1 spin my probability is 35/37 or 84.6%, I could win only 1 unit and lose 35 units.

If I'd bet 1 number for 35 spins my overall probability would be approximately 64% to hit at least once, I could win as many times as my number hits multiplied by 36 and in the worst case I'd lose 35 units.
If what you said was true then no matter how many times I bet a single number, whether I'd bet it only once or 1 million times, the probability would always be 2.7%, of course this is far from truth!

Just consider that NEVER in the history of roulette have happened the following events:

1) a single number to be absent more than 666 consecutive spins

2) all 37 numbers appeared in 37 consecutive spins (regardless of their order)

3) a single number (any) appeared for 37 spins in a row (most has been recorded 7 spins)

Now ask yourself why, are those events reflecting the same 2.7% regardless of what happened?
There are extreme deviations but not everything is possible.

After the decades of roulette history, the gazillions of accumulated spins from casinos around the world, if such ''travesties'' events where possible then they must have already occurred at least once.

Random has its limits like everything else in universe.

Quote from: TheMagician on June 18, 2017, 11:56:20 AM
Not entirely correct. 

The probability for a single number bet on a normal European roulette wheel (37 numbers) is at any given spin 2,70%, but, that a single number wins  1⁄37 and loses  36⁄37. This gives us =>  −1 ×  36⁄37 + 35 ×  1⁄37 = −0.0270 (2.70% house edge).

Now, a betting option with p numbers that define a win, the chance of winning a bet is 1-[1-(p/37)].

The chance of winning on 6 numbers play on one wheel 1-[1-(6/37)],  or 1 number play on six wheels 1-[1-(1/37)*6] is the same, or 1 in 6.1667 times (0.1621%)

the chance of the same number coming up on all six wheels after spinning them all 1 time is;  1-[(1/37)^6], 0.0000000003897532, or 1 in 2,565,756,409 spins

You can read more about roulette and mathematics here:

http://probability.infarom.ro/973875206Xsample.pdf

So if the spins on the same wheel are independent, why are not for different wheels??

You said that every spin on the same wheel has 2.7 % probability for 1 number to hit, so whether I win once or 6 times in a row by parlaying my profits after the first win, has the same probability according to you.
Then you said that betting 1 number on 6 different wheels, instead of 1 number for 6 spins on the same wheel, has 0.0000000003897532 % to hit on all of them.

So if the spins on the same wheel are independent, why are not for different wheels??

Quotebrain juice, chimps and clinical related infatuation

You are full of it!

Hey Giz, next time around ask Santa to build you a new chimney...if you get my drift 

@ Wannawin, OMG your first post of this thread was the 666th!!!

Quote from: TheMagician on June 18, 2017, 11:56:20 AM
Not entirely correct. 

The probability for a single number bet on a normal European roulette wheel (37 numbers) is at any given spin 2,70%, but, that a single number wins  1⁄37 and loses  36⁄37. This gives us =>  −1 ×  36⁄37 + 35 ×  1⁄37 = −0.0270 (2.70% house edge).

Now, a betting option with p numbers that define a win, the chance of winning a bet is 1-[1-(p/37)].

The chance of winning on 6 numbers play on one wheel 1-[1-(6/37)],  or 1 number play on six wheels 1-[1-(1/37)*6] is the same, or 1 in 6.1667 times (0.1621%)

the chance of the same number coming up on all six wheels after spinning them all 1 time is;  1-[(1/37)^6], 0.0000000003897532, or 1 in 2,565,756,409 spins

You can read more about roulette and mathematics here:

http://probability.infarom.ro/973875206Xsample.pdf

Thanks, I suspected that I mistaken something, actually this was to assign the probability of having the same number on 6 spins in a row as having the same number on 6 different wheels.
The 6 spins in row on the same wheel are mutually exclusive events, while having the same number on 6 different wheels simultaneously is mutually inclusive events.
In the first case events are being separated by time, while on the second are being separated by space, a bit confusing.

Quote from: VLS on September 17, 2014, 01:36:13 AM
More related to us having an "internal accountant" in our subconscious mind, which acts on recognizable patterns gathered throughout our game play. Whether we want it or not.

This is misleading to say the least, you are confusing 'apophenia pareidolia' with intuition but there's distinction between them.

There is also difference between intuition, precognition,remote view,telepathy and clairvoyance.
For the majority makes no difference because they cannot understand it.

1) Apophenia pareidolia is the result of illusionary visions, they don't exist but only on subject's perception.

2) Intuition is a crude mental ability (hunches) which everyone possess up to certain degree but since it's not being developed an individual cannot use it by will and effectively.

3) Precognition is the second level of intuition, therefore the person starts to control this mental ability.
His/her visions are becoming clearer and last longer.

4) Remote viewing is like precognition but referred specifically for physical locations rather than conditions, persons, situations...etc

5) Telepathy is the next level of precognition, it's more intensive in terms of clarity and duration.
It's possible that an advanced alien civilization to use it as standard communication rather than speech.

6) Clairvoyance is the charisma of forthsight which used by the oracles.
Oracles used it by will and it's far superior from precognition, it's the ultimate level one could reach by 'opening his 3rd eye' which is the 6th chakra.
An oracle could see mentally things in the past, future or present which are beyond his/her physical senses.
A prophet is inferior to oracle because what he/she foretells is being given to him/her by divine intervention, in other words, he/she is not capable to foresee by his/her will, actually acts as a messenger.

Quote from: wannawin on June 18, 2017, 02:02:45 AM
Perhaps for the same reason they add 0, 00, 000 ... instead of # 37, # 38, # 39 because 36 numbers give exact divisions of varied forms that are useful without residues or numbers out. 36 is divided in a balanced way.  it seems to me that such is all that entails this reasoning. there are no numbers of the beast nor pacts with underworld entities.

I don't agree, wouldn't be easier to divide a round number such as 50 rather than 36, 37 or 38?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base36
Why every circle has 360 degrees no matter how large or small is?
Do you consider 360 for cycle and 36 for roulette just arbitrary numbers?
Think deeper...!

Quote from: wannawin on June 18, 2017, 02:02:45 AM
It seems to me that it is to prevent physical wheel patterns from being easily recognized by the average player .  patterns like ball jump every 5 spaces would be recognized by arithmetical order with ease . Or when the same sector of the wheel is hit repeatedly people would notice that it is stuck on neighbours if all that comes out are number values close to each other.  Or maybe they would determine the signature of the croupier with a greater ability so adding a layer of more clutter helps to divert the attention away from the physical cylinder towards the numbers as in the draw of another lottery.

This is so true, I'd like to add the fact about American roulette, instead of just adding an extra number (00) for additional HE, they've went into the  trouble of rearranging the whole wheel layout differently from the European counterpart...
Why?
Wouldn't they have the additional HE by just adding the extra slot while maintaining the x36 payout?
Thus if rearranging the layout was insignificant why did they bother?

Quote from: wannawin on June 18, 2017, 02:02:45 AM
Interesting consideration about dead weight by inactive numbers. it is very true that a quad with two active numbers and two cold numbers carries a statistical load on its back. it is never known how much longer it will take for a number to stop being asleep . at least the recent number is known to have the possibility to come out more times than the average. this can make the statistical basis for people who play what is coming out while avoiding the cold groups.

Betting sleepers is to throw money by betting that it will reverse the trend.  as they pay when the number goes out and it loses on the ones that do not come out then if the sleeper trend continues it will continue without payment. big mistake because this is a game that has a vein to go to the extremes . I agree it is better to seek to be benefited by positive ends above average rather than throwing more money waiting for a negative end to be reversed.  in my humble opinion.

It's not about how many, but when...timing is of the utmost importance!

As a side note think of the following:
There are 37 players entering the game with 1 spin difference each.
By the 37th spin the first player will conclude his/her betting series while on the same time the last player will initiate his/her own series of bets.

My question is this, even every player bets on the same table do you think all of them to take the same decisions and arrive on same results?

Ponder on this for a while!

I like the way you put it Vic but to be frank there is not simple yes or no answer.

Usually reality lies between 2 opposing ends, from one hand you have the totals and they don't change regardless of their order of occurrence.
For someone to profit based only on quantitative analysis has to consistently select bets which occur more than their probability/payout.
This way you don't need any progression and/or money management in order to profit.
Is it possible?
Absolutely it is, actually every time you play, every bet section, from singles up to EC's, will be unequal by less or more, always!
We don't know which but that's a different story.

On the other hand, all negative and positive progressions are assuming the likelihood of the sequence of results, thus susceptible to variance.
Negative progressions favor wins after losses, while positive progressions favor wins after wins, both destined to meet their nemesis under various sequences.

If you don't have a good bet selection then progressions and money management would not suffice for overall success.
I'm not rejecting them but are of secondary importance in my  consideration.

Quote from: Sputnik on October 31, 2016, 05:31:10 PM
Did you know that one number that hit once within 25 trails has the same random walk as EC.
So if a window of 25 trails goes by and you number does not hit - then you got black once.
If you get a new window with 25 trails with no hit then you get Another black.
Now if you get your number hit once within 25 trails you have red.

Ask Bayes ... he can explain the probability and math behind it.

Cheers

More like 26 rather than 25, the exact number is 25.8 and by rounding it to the nearest whole number becomes 26.

For betting 2 numbers the same window becomes 13 times, for 3 numbers becomes 8 spins, for 4 numbers becomes 6 spins, for 5 numbers 5 spins, for 6 numbers 4 spins...etc

Quote from: wannawin on June 17, 2017, 11:23:57 PM
thank you for taking the time to respond.

You are welcome

Quote from: wannawin on June 17, 2017, 11:23:57 PMso it is like locating 6 roulettes on the same board. but what is the logic for the roulette x6? why not 4, 5, 8, another number instead of 6?  maybe marketing by the so called number of the beast that carries the 6s ? it seems quite arbitrary.

The creators decide to make it like this, not me.
'Multiball or multiwheel if you will provides the option to bet up to 6
times simultaneously your bet(s).
Why don't you wonder why the roulette numbers are 37 instead of a round number like 30 or 50??
Or even the reason why they have the obscure arrangement around the wheel which is not the arithmetical order such as on the table 1,2,3...etc
Why don't you wonder?
Something for you to ponter.

Quote from: wannawin on June 17, 2017, 11:23:57 PM
I hardly remember it was more convenient to bet one number 36 times instead of betting 36 numbers once because of the variance so you can win equal or more than what corresponds you to win when you play 36 times one single bet.  however betting a single spin 36 numbers denies that possibility of winning more. leaving only what corresponds to 1 won spin or leaving you with total loss. this is a point to consider in the strategy of the cunning player..

I believe the balance between risk and reward is the optimum, in other words:
more numbers = higher win rate, less profit and more loss
less numbers = lower win rate, more profit and less loss
Usually few are the numbers which appear more than average and those numbers don't belong to the same table group.
Which means that by betting table groups you would carry dead weight along with 1 or 2 numbers which are overperforming.
In other words you are reducing the payout and your chance to be overall winner.
So just stick to few numbers, that's regarding quantities.
About qualities of bet selections is the tricky part, it's easy to say that those 6 numbers are above average after 74 spins, but are they going to remain like this and for how long??

Just a hint for your perusal: think in proportions, think analogies...! 

Quote from: wannawin on June 17, 2017, 10:39:07 PM
where are the rules of the game? where can we play for fun money? how much would a single $ 1 bet pay? thank you.

The rules are the same as with normal roulette.
I think it's on every casino with Playtech platform and Bet Voyager too.
Personally I've tried it from Paddypower casino (only on downloadable version)
If you bet 1 $ on 1 wheel you could win up to 35 $ net , if you decide (optional) to have the same bet on 2,3,4,5 or 6 wheels simultaneously it would cost 2fold,3fold,4fold,5fold up to 6fold and also in case of win the gain would be multifold.

The same could be applied at B&M casinos by betting multiple tables on the same time.

The big question remains, does this way makes difference in our bottom line?
Is it better than risking the same 36 units in one number at one table?
We could bet a number on 6 different wheels/tables for 6 consecutive spins or 6 numbers on 6 different wheels/tables for 1 spin.
In all cases the risk is 36 units, but the possible profit varies.